Tuesday, May 17, 2016

Gender neutral experiment: re-make the men's room only

I read on Fox News online how Megyn Kelly “blew up” the governor of Texas by showing that transgender males using female bathrooms has not led to any more crime in schools where it has been introduced.

But the primary issue is not crime — privacy is the giant day-to-day issue — even if there were never any crime involved at all. A transgender woman with male parts still intact who is sexually attracted to women is feels no different to women than any other male. Think the former Bruce Jenner — who reportedly is still interested in women. There is a case in a high school in Palatine, Illinois where the girls are up in arms — not about crime — but about a transgender boy using the locker room where they get undressed.

I know transgender is a trying condition. 19 times the suicide rate according to a New York Times story.

And I understand they feel degraded being forced to use bathrooms other than the sex they perceive themselves to be — I understand. Which gives me a desperate idea to resolve the issue. Leave women’s bathrooms women’s bathrooms. Re-model all male bathrooms into gender neutral — hopefully relieving the subjective feeling.

I said this is desperate. Anything is better — infinitely better — than allowing any physical male (including cab drivers in a hurry) to use the female facilities just by claiming (true or not!) gender dysphoria. In a San Francisco school district 1% claim gender dysphoria. Children have no reason to make up crazy stories. That’s a lot of outwardly male-appearing males to use the facilities (and then come the cab drivers in a hurry and the men’s is out of order).

This setup would not last for long I predict. Men at the local stadium would probably be irked by women using the (busy so presumably safe) men’s room rather than waiting on long lines (when you got to go you got to go. Men are much more intolerant of intrusion (even if they have infinitely less to lose). Remember mister “Don’t touch my junk!” Experimenting with the men will give a realistic idea of the kind of gross privacy intrusion you are really facing with gender neutral restrooms in public as opposed to a controlled school environments.

In the comments to one Yahoo News report is the story of a NYC public rec center where the high school swim team girls are afraid to use the locker room and shower since a very man-appearing man was spotted coming out in towel. Now all 18 of them crowd into the single spigot family shower. A crucial part of the works is that nobody may question in any way anybody who uses the neutral facility — open city. That’s the reality. Better it be experienced first by men — then we will see what happens.

Meantime the letter of the law at the airport is that once you enter the security zone you may not leave even if on opposite gender TSA agents are there to frisk you. 


If you want to play gender-doesn’t-matter then take a look at police forces across the country who mostly all train their males that there is nothing illegal about them frisking females all over — even if policy (supposedly not law) suggest limits — and what-do-you-think-of-that? A women checked for guns — which you can do without touching anywhere with fingers — is not going to do the Houdini and slip the cuffs, then do an Incredible Hulk and tear the partition aside, take a sharp object out of her bra and scratch the police officer in the front seat.

They love to quote Terry v. Ohio. Terry could not have addressed the felony sex abuse limits because no female was involved and courts may only decide what is brought before them — part of checks and balances. The only sex abuse prohibition that differentiates by intent is flashing not groping. 

So we can come at the gender issue from the left as well as the right. Personally, I have thought for ten years since I found out that male on female frisking was the craziest thing I ever heard of in this country in my whole life. Now with gender neutral bathrooms (and showers and locker rooms as I read in the comments to the Yahoo News comments — too bad I didn’t think to save it while it was at 400 comments; now up to 4000, almost all vehemently and at length opposed) I know what number two is. 

See also:


Denis Drew said...


” One there is NOTHING in these rules that prevents schools from establishing separate facilities for ‘Students’ ‘Staff’ and ‘Visitors’. This indeed is pretty much standard practice. ”

Trans (identifying as) girls in a controlled school environment may be allotted their own facilities — not force according to Obama and friends. Opening up ladies rooms nationwide to anyone claiming to id as female just rips the roof off women’s and girls’ sexual privacy whenever they are outdoors. You are right; I am hysterical — quite hysterical. This is the craziest thing I know of in this country after male cops belief that they may routinely body frisk females.
* * *
Drudge today: Female ROSS Shopper Upset Man Allowed To Use Women’s Dressing Room…

Female ROSS Shopper Upset Man Allowed To Use Women’s Dressing Room…
” Sickles said she waited, and was shocked when she watched the man walk out. He was in no way dressed as a woman,” Sickles said. “He had on jeans, a t-shirt, 5 o’clock shadow, very deep voice. He was a man.”
* * *
” If a male appearing adult is using a girls locker room in a way that appears to be harassment or a preliminary to sexual assault they can be challenged by security. ”

There’s the little problem of extreme uncomfortability. A male in the locker room is harrassment — or wouldn’t it be if you were there. Hetero-homosexual-trans, whatever it doesn’t matter to the people that count: 160 million women. The girls in the next story are portrayed as being at such a self-conscious age that some us bathroom stall rather than undress in front of other girls.

I would like somebody to show me high school girls anywhere — anywhere! — who would not be extremely uncomfortable having a male student of whatever identity in the locker or bathroom. Anywhere. Ditto for women using public facilities now have to worry about males in with them. I don’t care if anyone never committed a crime.
* * *
Why these high school girls don’t want a transgender student in their locker room
What kills me is that is such a potentially hot social issue — anywhere with virtually all women! (see how the polls are when they realize it means 5 o’clock shadow in the dressing room) — that it could be just what the Republican party ordered to woo everybody back — just when I was hoping we could straighten the country out with re-unionization.

The big advantage of the experiment is that it would be recognized as such and carefully monitored by the populace and common sense could possibly win out. I compare the way the situation is going today to the way female police officers were put on the job by the courts — without the use of the critical word “experiment” — even though there was plenty of reasonable doubt. Reasonable doubt on substantive issues should have left it out of the court’s hands. An experiment the ladies were definitely entitled to.

Instead the first federal court pronounced that 95% of the job didn’t require physical strength (8 years of observing left thinking that if 10% of the police force can’t handle 5% of the time — even though it was 50% of the job — that the public couldn’t easily tell). By the time it got to Illinois the court just said: “There is no rational relationship to a valid state objective” … .

The experiment is designed largely to keep the issue in the public domain where it can at least be sorted out without being taken out of our hands by messages from on high. You are right; I am very hysterical.

Denis Drew said...

A very big deal in this radical ideology — from the NYC rec center story with the 18 swim team girls who are now forced to crowd up in the family shower with one spigot; unfortunately now buried in 5,000+ comments — a core part of the philosophy is that no questions may be asked, nor any documentation about gender requested of anyone entering any facility.

If this ever gets going to be a universally practiced thing I would like to perform an experiment: go to a busy Target with male and female bathrooms adjacent to each other (and preferably buried back out from sight of the main concourse like at my Walmart) — and put up a tape with a sign attached that the men’s is “out of order” across the men’s entrance. Then stand back with a camera and record how many men use the ladies.

An interesting twist on "candid camera" experiment would be to set up our decoy male who would enter the ladies to see if -- monkey see; monkey do -- the random male follows. Be interesting to hear what the conversation between the two might be.

As a rush, rush 28 year cab driver I’m pretty sure I would have — at least after yelling in to make sure nobody’s there; maybe wait for them to leave, maybe not.

I cannot believe what the world is coming to: men in women’s bathrooms and locker rooms — Donald Trump for president!